Ep.31 | Accelerating Your Career in Privacy (Guest: Jamal Ahmed)

Show Transcript

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to episode 31 of Privacy Lawls where I, Donata Stroink-Skillrud speak with amazing privacy professionals and we have some laughs along the way as well. Today I’ll be speaking with Jamal Ahmed about accelerating your career in privacy. Jamal is an award-winning privacy and AI consultant who has trained over 70,000 privacy professionals across 137 countries.

His international bestselling book, easy Peasy Guide to GDPR has maintained Amazon bestseller status for over 25 months. Jamal hosts the World’s Top Rank Privacy podcast and is ranked number one UK LinkedIn creator in privacy and IP law with over 30,000 followers. He has spoken across eight countries on four continents, sharing stages with Max Rems, and appearing on panels alongside EDPB Chair ANU Talu at International Data Protection Conferences.

He holds certifications including C-E-C-I-P-M and has been [00:01:00] recognized as Freeman of the City of London, among the top 100 most influential people in the UK and Data privacy leader of the year in 2025. Jamal, thanks so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. So can you start us off by telling us what inspired you to work in privacy?

So I’ll, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll be completely honest with you. ’cause it is privacy laws, right? So what inspired me to work in privacy was the same thing that inspired me to get out of compliance. So I was stuck in compliance. I was doing, I was in the financial services. I was doing case after case day in, day out, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, every day look the same.

And every Monday it was a fight to get out of bed because, uh, I didn’t wanna go to work. He was uninspiring. There wasn’t anything I was doing with my life that a computer or somebody who had had three months training after school couldn’t do. And so I was feeling there, feeling super uninspired, [00:02:00] super demotivated, and just.

I so frustrated, like I had so much more to offer, so much more potential. I wanted to solve real problems, make an impact, do stuff like, is this why I went and invested so much in my development, in my learning and all of these things just to be doing these kind of cases. Same thing, day in, day out. And so I was looking for a way out of.

I wanted to do something where I could be more, do more and have more. I wanted more reward, I wanted more respect, and I wanted something where I could actually see that I’m making a difference. And so I began a quest for, okay, what is that? And as you do, you go on LinkedIn and you look at things and I came across, um, GDPR people talking about GDPR, and I was like, GDPR.

What’s that? Then I as Okay, it’s the overlap of privacy. They’re changing the data privacy laws. And I’m in the UK and at that time we had the Data Protection Act 1998 here as law. And in one of my earlier roles, right after I left university I was actually really good [00:03:00] at getting companies to take on their data protection responsibilities.

’cause it’s something that I was more passionate than the people I worked with around. And if you look through my, kind of like Facebook and other places, you’ll see I’m always someone that’s been advocating for human rights. So I’ve done like, the protest, done, the fundraising, all of those things for standing up for people.

And in one of my earlier company, I used to get into a little bit of trouble because most of my peers would come to me when they had a challenge and I would take the up with management and be vocal about it. And that kind of caused some challenges with the, uh, head of year. Or the person who’s in charge of department there.

So I wanted something that would allow me to really make a contribution, right? Mm-hmm. Make a contribution and so. I was looking for a kid that, that, and when I came across G PN privacy, I was like, wow, this is gonna be a game changer. And I went and spoke to a few people about it. One person said to me, you know, I don’t think it’s gonna be such a big deal.

It’s gonna be like the millennium bug the, the law is gonna kick in. And then by midnight everyone’s gonna realize [00:04:00] nothing happened. Nothing. Everyone’s gonna forget all about it. So that was a bit demotivating. And I was like, okay, well I, if I’m looking for something and I wanna pivot my career, I need to do something that there’s gonna be longevity in it.

I, I need to do something that’s going to actually provide me a career, not just a job, because I don’t just want a different job. I want a career path. I also wanted something where I could have some kind of impact. It would not just impact the business, but it’s also impact actual people. Mm-hmm. And I wanted to make sure that it’s something that I could grow and thrive and not just go and make some money and then, you know, be back here in six months, 12 months, two years, maybe three years time, same song, uh, same thing, day in, day out.

So I wanted a little of variety and the more I looked into data privacy, the more fascinated that I became. And around that time, i, I was also having this kind of spiritual awakening, right? Where um, there was these challenges with the kind of roles that I would take and I wouldn’t take because of the interest element and how that, [00:05:00] um, conflicts with my beliefs.

And so I wanted to make sure I do something clean, but I didn’t end up in the same situation in 2, 3, 4 years down the line, right? I don’t want to be fighting with a duvet every Monday morning ’cause I don’t wanna get up to work. I wanna be inspired to wake up. And when I looked at everything that privacy had to offer.

And when I looked at how challenging it was and I looked at how, uh, unexplored it was in terms of no one really knows what’s coming next, I got so fascinated and I just dove straight into it. So, uh, yeah, that’s how I got into privacy. That’s really interesting how you, you talk about. You know, feeling like you’re contributing to something and that you’re doing something of value and how that’s used to motivate you.

You know, for me, before my current job at Term Meddin, I worked at a junk mail company. So basically this was a company that would send out credit card, pre-approval letters. And at the time I was like, you know, I just, I need a job, right? Yeah. Like, I need to pay my mortgage, I need a job. So I got the job there and after a couple months I’m like, wait.

I’ve been opted out of this junk [00:06:00] mail for years now. I hate receiving junk mail. To me it’s just trash. It’s just a waste of resources and ink and paper. And I’m like, what am I doing here? Like I hate junk mail And I’m at a company that sends. You junk mail. Right? And it was so hard to stay motivated at this job.

And when the opportunity to start term mcg getin started when the opportunity to work here full time, um, came up. I was like, yes, I am out of this job. I am leaving right now. So I, I think it’s really important to have a job that you’re passionate about, um, because you’re right, that’s what gets you out of bed every morning.

You know, as part of the job that you’re doing now, um, you’re obviously very passionate about teaching and mentorship. What would you say are the most challenging aspects of teaching and mentorship, and what would you say are the most rewarding aspects of it as well? Ooh, what a fantastic question. What are the most challenging aspects of teaching and mentorship, and what’s the most rewarding?

Lemme start off with the most rewarding first. [00:07:00] The most rewarding is the fulfillment I get from seeing people light up, like suddenly the penny drops, or they’ve been struggling in something for so long and they’ve convinced themselves that it’s such a big problem and it’s given them so much stress.

Stress, and sleep. That’s nice over here. They come and ask a question about it or they bring it to the table and then we just have a conversation and they walk away with complete clarity. It’s just like, wow. Like the whole world changed for them. Someone clicked on the light switch that they didn’t know existed.

So seeing that kind of aha moment, that transformation is amazing. The other thing is when you see how people’s lives change over the, over the longer term, so for example, I had this one mentee, I speak about him a lot on LinkedIn. He used to be an Uber driver. When we first met, right? He hadn’t been to university.

He’d never done a professional’s days work in his life. He didn’t even have a CV or a LinkedIn profile when we first met. He’s someone that was, uh, working in his dad’s business from when he was a teenager and school, left school till they fell out, and then he went and did his own thing as an Uber driver.

Within six [00:08:00] months, we helped him to get the skills, get the competence, get the certifications, and land himself a role as a data protection manager. Wow. But now he’s not just a data protection manager, he’s actually handling data privacy for some of the wealthiest people on the planet. He works for a company called Flex Jet who do all of the private jets.

Right. And then you see him, he sending me pictures of him flying around on empty, uh, on empty jets. And he is earning six figures and the way his life has transformed. And not just that, but the people that knew him, they’ve seen him transform and he’s in. Firing so many other people to believe in themselves and transform as well.

And that like the ripple effects of that is so fulfilling, so rewarding, and nothing could replace that. I think it’s really cool to see how people’s lives change their generations as well, like. This person’s children have way better opportunities now. You know, they have a role model, they have access to learning about different types of careers.

You know, um, I mentor a lot [00:09:00] of law students at the American Power Association, and to me it’s really cool. Like when I was in school, I didn’t have a mentor. I didn’t have anything lined up for a job. And I was in my final year and I’d go to the career office and they’re like. And I’m telling them, Hey, I need help finding a job.

And they’re like, well, look into your network. I’m like, if I had a network, I wouldn’t be here. I wouldn’t be here. Yeah. You know? And that was all the advice that they had to give. So now talking to law students, I’m like, okay, you’re gonna wanna speak to this recruiter. You wanna gonna get this certification?

Here’s your local IEPP knowledge that chapter. Here’s some people looking for interns. Here’s some people looking for jobs and just seeing their face light up with all the information that they had no idea even existed. And them having like, instead of their to-do list, just being blank. Find a job to, here are the five things, here’s the five people you need to contact, or here’s the five PE things you need to do.

And having that instead. Just seeing them kind of [00:10:00] gain hope again. To me that part is really rewarding as well. Yeah, absolutely. So that’s the rewarding part. Now, what’s the challenging part? The challenging part is maintaining the energy, maintaining the enthusiasm. I mean, let’s be honest, GDPR is not the most exciting subject in the world.

A lot of people told me it’s a very dry subject. Okay, so let’s just admit that, okay, yeah. It is a dry subject. It’s not super interesting. But if we are going to become effective educators of that topic, and we really want to empower people and we want them to be enthusiastic about going in. Protecting people’s rights and empowering them and making sure that we’re protecting people’s dignity, then we need to breathe that vitality, that enthusiasm into it.

And so I would say the biggest challenge is on a four week, where you’re teaching everyday eight hours to maintain that enthusiasm, maintain that stamina, and maintain the energy. Pass that on to the people who are in different parts of the world and receiving that. I think that’s the most challenging part.

But I think that’s what I do so well, which is why we have so many people coming, [00:11:00] um, and joining the academy, right? So I think that’s the challenge me, the other challenging part. Is when you’ve got people from different cultures, different backgrounds, different sets of um, education, some legally qualified, some not so legally qualified, making sure that you can speak to everybody and meeting them where they are without alienating other people or making it go completely above other people’s holers.

Finding that balance that is so challenging, that is so tricky. But what I’ve found that’s helped me through is by coming up and using everyday examples that everybody can relate with, and it just helps everyone get the clarity and more importantly, be confident about the things that they’re learning and discovering, and go ahead and actually build up the competence they need as well.

So I would say those are the most challenging things, is making sure that you meet people where they are without alienating other people. Or without making it feel too patronizing for some of the people who are a little bit more advanced and without making the other people feel like I need to [00:12:00] give up.

What am I doing in the room with all of these lawyers? And at the same time maintaining that enthusiasm, um, and the energy for what can sometimes be quite complicated and dry topic. I love the idea of using real world examples. I’m one of those people that needs that. Like, that’s why I wasn’t doing super well in like chemistry in high school or.

Tax law, I’m like, I need to understand how this connects to real life or otherwise, my brain just shuts off and I don’t care. So I, I love the fact that you do that. So today we’re gonna be discussing how privacy professionals can accelerate their careers. So what do you see as a difference between somebody who is simply good at their job and privacy and somebody who advances quickly?

Alright, so the biggest difference I see, and I’m saying this after looking at the patterns after training about 70,000 people, the biggest difference I see with people who are good at their jobs and people who excel really fast is their ability to see the bigger picture [00:13:00] like. Literally, if you had to put it down to one thing, that’s the thing it comes to.

So there’s lots of privacy professionals who are really good at their job, very qualified. They know how to get the job done, but they have this tunnel vision and they only see the privacy task in front of them. A great privacy professional. Goes beyond that and says, okay, where does this fit in with the mission?

Where does this fit in with the other operations? How does this tie in with some of the other departments and some of the other people I’ve spoken to and the different stakeholders, and what can I do to strategically add value here instead of just ticking the task and making a girl something on the spreadsheet, go from red or amber to green and saying that it’s compliant and we can move ahead or actually saying, no, we can’t do this.

Good privacy professionals, they understand the law. Great privacy professionals, they go beyond understanding the law and they understand the business application, the use case, the strategic advantage, and they position themselves as more of a strategic business partner rather than a compliance cop.

That that makes perfect sense. So, you know, at what [00:14:00] point in our career should we stop saying, you know, I’m just executing what I’m told. And start thinking more strategically. At what point does that come up For me? It’s, uh, there is, there, there, there doesn’t become a point that should be the default, right?

If you’re someone that just wants to tick the box and get things done, then there’s much easier jobs, um, you can go and do where you can pretty much just tick the box and get stuff done. If you wanna be in privacy or if you’re in privacy, it should be because you care about more than that. It’s not just about the money, it’s not just about getting the job done, but it’s about realizing that all of your decisions, all of the thing that you do is gonna impact on someone’s right to privacy.

And I mean, we talk about someone’s right to privacy, but what does that mean in reality? It means you are saying that you are someone that believes in people’s right to be free from being disturbed, free from being observed and free from being interfered with. And so if you truly believe in those rights and you want to be part of the change, and you wanna be [00:15:00] part of the solution, and you wanna be part of a better world, then it’s not just about ticking a box and getting stuff done.

It’s always about saying, okay, what are we looking at here? How is this operation either observing or disturbing or interfering with somebody? Or how am I protecting that? How am I enabling people to choose to be? Disturbed, observed or interfered with, if that’s something that they would like. Sometimes there’s benefits in doing that.

So when you understand the bigger picture, when you understand and you reconnect with the reason why we do privacy to begin with, it’s never about at what point. That’s the default. You should always be thinking about what is the bigger picture here? How can I add more value here? How can I share something with the business that they might have not have considered?

Now, in all cases, every single day, it might not be appropriate, especially when there’s very big, uh, deadlines and timelines and other things. But that’s the kind of thinking that we should be having all of the time, is looking at the bigger picture and seeing opportunities to add value. So really, day one, right?

Like as soon as we start a new job in privacy and our [00:16:00] first job in privacy, we should be thinking about this. You know? What about, you know, after your first few years. What skills matter the most? Uh, is it legal, knowledge, communication, business sense, or, or something else? What matters the most after the first few years in the field?

Alright. Great question. Before I answer that question, I just wanna go back onto what you just said as you were summing up. ’cause you made an excellent point. You were saying it’s from day one right now. It is from day one. And the reason this is important in terms of career advancement, forget about privacy, forget about other people.

For now, let’s just be a solution. Thinking about yourself is you don’t get a second chance to make a first impression, and most people will form their opinion of you the first time they interact with you. So the first 90 days are the most powerful in your career in terms of the way you are perceived.

By the people you’re working with, by anyone you’re engaging with, and buy senior stakeholders. And pretty much those are the people that will decide who gets the opportunities, who gets the projects, who deserves a chance to try something new, and who is gonna progress. And if [00:17:00] they see you or someone that should stick in the box, then they’re very happy for you to stay there and take the box for the rest of your life.

But if they see you’re someone that has potential, someone that can actually grow, someone that can develop, someone that can take the business somewhere else, then they will offer you those positions. But if you go in with this mindset that at this point when X happens or Y happens, then I will change who I am, change the way I show up.

It’s already too late. People’s first impressions of you remain for a long time. It’s very hard to change people’s first impressions. That’s why one of my mentors says, you never get a second chance to make your first impression. So if that’s the first impression that people have of you, then guess what?

That’s how they’re gonna think of you. That’s how they’re gonna remember you, and that’s how your reputation precedes you. And your names are mentioned in the rooms and the meetings that you’re not even present in. Yeah. Now you said about the kind of key skills that people need to have to develop.

So for me, what I’ve noticed is regardless of where somebody is, if they want to elevate their career, if they want to attract the kind of opportunities that are more [00:18:00] rewarding, that have a greater impact and that have better rewards, then there’s five things that we have to consider and we have to focus on them in this particular order because I’ve tried doing them in different orders and, uh, my mentees have tried and it just doesn’t work.

So the first thing is we need to focus on the mindset. Have you, um, um, have you read book Atomic Habits? No, but I’ve heard of it. Okay. So at Atomic Habits, James Clear, he talks about the fact that we will never rise to the level of our potential, but we will always fall to the level of our identity. So even if you have the potential of transforming the world, but you believe you are just someone that that’s there to follow instructions, you’ll never transform the world.

But if you believe you are someone that is transforming the world and you are gonna transform the world, you know what? You are gonna do something remarkable in your life. And so the first thing starts with mindset is we need to get clear on who it is that we want to show up as. And regardless of where you are now, we [00:19:00] can always recreate the next best version of ourselves just by getting intentional about it.

And so one of the things I get my mentees to do on my accelerator programming pretty much first week is we create their identity and we say. Draw a picture, get a photo of yourself, and now let’s create the identity of who you want to become the next best version of yourself. And also, Dr. Caroline Dweck.

You, you, you familiar with Dr. Caroline Dweck? No. Okay. So she talks about, so you, you’ve heard fixed mindset and growth mindset, right? Yeah, yeah. I’ve, so, Dr. Caroline Dweck was the person who kind of. Put science behind growth mindset. And she also talks about how having a growth mindset can help us achieve beyond our wireless dreams.

And if we have a fixed mindset, then we’re kind of reducing our potential to what we believe we’re capable of. And Henry Ford said, whether you believe you can, or whether you believe you can’t, you’re absolutely right. Mm-hmm. So for me, the fundamentals is first, we need to think like the right person. You need to become the right person in your mind, in your identity and [00:20:00] show up as that person.

So first, we need to focus on the subject matter expertise. Make sure we have an abundant mindset, make sure we have the growth mindset, and make sure we have the mindset of someone who’s looking to add value rather than someone that’s constantly asking. What can I get? What can I get? What can you do for me?

And so when you start off with the right mindset, everything else becomes much easier. So that’s the first thing we need is the mindset. Then number two is you need to know your stuff. Like you wanna be a subject matter expert. That’s what people are gonna pay you a lot of money for. Then you need to really know your stuff, and that goes beyond regurgitating material to go and pass a multiple choice test, whether it’s IAPP or Isaka or something else, right?

Is you need to understand it so well that you can explain it. Simply to any stakeholder. And so I hold my mentees to the standard of, if you can’t explain this to an 11-year-old, then we’ve got more work to do. And so they have to be able to know the subject matter so well, and not just the surface level legalese, but the actual breadth and the depth and how this [00:21:00] overlays with other areas and other things.

Because when you do that, then you un add real value and people can see you’re a bonafide subject matter expert. So you need to develop that. So first, have the right mindset. Number two is develop the subject matter expertise. Number three is now you can talk the talk. Because you know your stuff, but can you walk the walk and walking the walk means taking all of that complex legalese and being able to, able to operationalize it in a practical and pragmatic way that helps the business get to the solutions fast, but also quickly.

And so you need to develop that competence. And this is where a lot of people fight. Start fighting with me is that’s like saying you need five years experience for an entry level role. You’re absolutely right. That’s what businesses want, right? But that doesn’t mean that you need five years experience because in reality, what hiring managers and recruiters are looking for is competence.

And experience is the strongest indicator of competence, and [00:22:00] that’s why people talk about experience, but they’re not really looking for experience. What they’re looking for is competence, and that competence can’t be built in training. That competence can’t be built through voluntary. Work that competence can be built by going and shadowing and mentoring.

There’s so many ways of building that competence. But you’ve convinced yourself that you need to get a job to get the experience. And that’s the only way you can get the experience. Because without the experience, you can’t get a job. But hang on a minute, because you don’t have a job, you don’t have the experience, so you can’t get the experience right.

Catch 20. So you put yourself into this loop and you’re feeling sorry for yourself and you’re justifying it to yourself and everyone around you. If you had the right mindset, you would see that’s not how it is. So that’s the next thing, is we need to build that competence. We need to make sure that we can operationalize these complex requirements and that we can do that in a way that is pragmatic and practical.

So we’ve got three steps of a mindset, subject matter, expertise, knowing your staff, and then being able to. Do the work. So those three things are great and a lot of people kind of stop there. [00:23:00] But if you really wanna make an impact, if you really wanna get paid the big bucks and you really wanna have so much fun and get paid to fly around the world, then you need a personal brand.

So now you need to start focusing on building out your personal brand. And a lot of people will say, well, what does that actually mean? It means that people understand the value that you bring to the table without having met you. Without having met you in person or without you having to, uh, demonstrate that.

So how do we do that? The easiest way to do that for privacy professionals or any professionals is go on a platform like LinkedIn where it’s full of professional people and start adding value there. And so what a lot of people will say is, okay, but uh, I wanna go on LinkedIn, but I’m not sure what to say.

I don’t wanna make a mistake. I don’t want people to, um, make fun of me. I don’t want to lose my credibility. And so. I completely get that. The other challenge people have is I don’t know who I’m talking to. Am I talking to people I went to school with? Am I talking to my future employer? What if my current employer sees me on LinkedIn and they think I’m trying to leave, I’m trying to [00:24:00] look for a promotion, not leave.

So people have all of these objections and misconceptions and it’s stuff that they’re telling themselves and excuses they’re making to justify not doing the things that they know is gonna move the needle for them. Right. And the other thing is, this is a thing that really is challenging to work with is one.

People are scared of success. Like you’ll have some people that won’t do things because they’re scared of success, they’re brilliant, they’re just scared of success, and so we need to understand what is getting in our way and overcome that. But when it comes to personal branding, it’s very simple. Just go on LinkedIn and give a.

Your the advice that you would give your past self, whether it was a day ago, a month ago, a week ago, six weeks ago, six months ago, the information that would’ve helped you, the insights that would’ve helped you, the lessons that would’ve helped you six months ago. Just start sharing those because there’s hundreds of people that would really appreciate that because they are six months behind.

And what I found is the more you help pull people up, the more they push you up, and the more they push you to [00:25:00] do even more. So that’s all I would say is just focus on adding insightful tips, education. Nuggets of wisdom from your own lived experience that’s gonna be helpful to you six months ago. And if you just keep doing that, then you’ll never run out of content.

The other thing is people say, okay, who am I writing to? What is my tone of voice? And so what I share with my mentees is we wanna come across personable, we wanna come across genuine, we wanna be authentic. So think of somebody in your life that you love and respect and that loves and respects you back, but isn’t privacy educated.

And we are gonna write to that person because we’re gonna write it simply enough for them to be able to get it, uh, without getting lost in legalese and all of these article numbers. And legalese number two is because of the love and respect that we have for each other, there’s gonna be warmth and sincerity in that.

And so if you only write to them, then that’s all you need to worry about. Forget about everything else. Clear a room, just write to them. And then they say, well, I don’t know how to structure my work. I’ve got 5,000 things in my [00:26:00] drafts. And so I say use the KFC framework. Okay, very simple. What do you want them to know?

That’s the KF is how do you want them to feel? And the C is what do you want them to commit to after they’ve, um, received your communication? And if you just start off with those three bullet points and everything else becomes much easier. So personal branding is key. And the easiest way to leverage that is platforms like LinkedIn right now.

And then once you’ve got personal branding under control or you’re actively doing something to build out your personal brand, um, on a daily, weekly basis, the final thing is you need to focus on building a community around you, right? Networking. And when I say networking, I don’t mean going to events, shaking people’s hand, collecting business cards, and doing nothing with that.

At the end of the day, what I mean is genuinely. Letting people know that you are there to add value and the kind of value that you can add and bring to the table. Now, the personal branding, obviously is going to help you get into the [00:27:00] right circles, have conversations with the right people, but your network is gonna determine your net worth.

But most importantly, I think most people think it’s about who you know. What I’ve found in my experience, it’s not who you know, it’s who knows you, but more importantly, who knows about the value that you can bring to the table. And for me, those are the five things that we need to focus on wherever we are in our career.

And with each level, you have to unlock a different level. Like my mentor says, with every level there’s a new devil. And so you’ve gotta figure out what it is that you need to unlock at that stage, and then you just keep evolving. Through those five areas and through the five different stages. So just to sum it up, if I’ve lost anyone, number one is your mindset.

Number two is your subject matter expertise. Number three is your practical competence. Number four is your personal branding, and number five is your community, your network. I feel like we can. Extrapolate and [00:28:00] use so much of this as companies as well, like for example, competence. I see this so much when talking to privacy vendors and we get on a call with a salesperson who wants to sell this product to us, and then they say GDRP.

You know, or you ask them like a very basic question of how this works in their tool. Well, I don’t know. I have to ask the technical team and I’m like, man, you’ve lost me. Right? Like, if you can’t even get the acronym correct. I don’t trust this product. Exactly. That credibility just forwards, right?

Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s over, you know? So I feel like that can be applied to so many different situations too. Um. What would you say, like what’s a common mistake that you see mid-level privacy pros make that stall their careers? What’s a common mistake? I see mid-level privacy pros doing that, stall their careers.

I think they overcomplicate stuff. Like literally that is it. I I, I, if the one thing I’ve [00:29:00] seen more and more of capable people not fulfilling or realizing their potential is they get in their own way and they convince themselves that it has to be harder than it is. Um, that because it feels so easy, they must.

Be missing something over questioning overanalyzing the paralysis by analysis. And this need for perfectionism like that is the biggest thing that is crushing so many careers right now is this need for perfectionism. And because they don’t get it perfect, they never publish the draft, they never send the email, they never write the article, and it’s all there in the draft.

And I’m, I’m sure people listening can relate to this. They’ve had stuff, they’ve been thinking about stuff, but they just have been too scared to put it out there because it’s not perfect. And the thing is, there’s no such thing as perfection and nobody rewards you for perfection. And so that’s the other thing I try to drum into my mentees is we say 85%.

That’s my standard. That’s the benchmark. I never go beyond that unless [00:30:00] there’s a specific need. But the effort it takes to finesse that 15% from 85 to a hundred, there is no return on investment for that. That makes it worth it, and I believe in progress over perfection. So we can always get feedback and improve things, but at least let’s get stuff out.

Then let’s get stuff into people’s hand. Let’s add value. So if we stop overthinking, if we stop overcomplicating stuff, and if you get out of your own way, you’ll find that just because of how much you understand the business, just ’cause of how much you can bring to the industry just because of where you are right now, you already offer a ton of value, but you keep convincing yourself that.

It’s not you or it’s somebody else, or you keep giving that credit away. And a lot of mid-career professionals at this stage, they develop perm or they suffer from imposter syndrome where they think they’re gonna get caught out, or they think that everybody else knows much more than them, where they think that they have to hide and stay invisible, and it’s.

That identity that they’ve created for themselves, that keeps them stuck more than anything else. It’s not more [00:31:00] knowledge. More knowledge, doesn’t help you evolve in your career. Knowledge is important. Yes, credentials are important, but certifications make you more qualified. Knowledge makes you more knowledgeable.

What they keep telling themselves is, I need more credibility. And they go back to what I call the Academic Authority Paradox is to compensate for their self imposter syndrome to compensate for being stuck where they are. They believe that they need more credibility, and that’s another certification is gonna give them that credibility, but they just find themselves stuck in the same situation over and over again.

So certifications doesn’t accur. E. E equal to more credibility. More credibility comes from personal branding. It comes from being able to communicate to the business in a way that makes everybody understand what’s at stake here and what’s what the, what there is to gain. That comes from being able to understand the business’s problems and explaining it to the business better than they was able to explain it to you.

Now that gets buy-in. Now they’re like, aha, you know [00:32:00] what? You’re on the same page you get us, and once you can give somebody the confidence. And the clarity that you understand their situation and that you understand their goals and you’re on the same page, that’s where real credibility come from. I, I, I often say to my mentees, imagine you work to the doctor.

And you, um, said, Hey doctor, I’m here because I’ve got some pain. And the doctor says, okay, um, writes you a prescription and then tells you to go and start taking these drugs. What would you do? Now, people who are conditioned to be very compliant, they’ll be like, okay, yeah, I’ll, I’ll do what the doctor said.

Because he’s the doctor. He knows best. Yeah. But reasonable people will say, whoa. I would be very concerned because he hasn’t asked about when did the pain start? Where is the pain? Does anything make it worse? Does anything make it better? Or any of these things to get a full diagnosis before he’s prescribed me the solution.

So I, I, I would be very hesitant. So what that means is people, we, even with doctors, just because they have the MBBS and they’ve been practicing their surgery, [00:33:00] don’t automatically get credibility. We get credibility based on how we act, and that is down to the kind of questions that we ask people. And so if you really want to progress in your career, get really good at asking really good questions, and those questions should be designed to gain clarity.

Both for yourself and the person you’re asking the question to. And once you’ve gained that clarity, you’ve solved every single challenge, pretty much 50% anyway. I don’t know if it’s an Chinese proverb or an African proverb, but it says a problem well stated is a problem half solved. Yeah. And so how do we state those problems Well?

Well, we can’t even get to that until we ask great questions. And so. The key message here is the questions that you ask yourself and the questions you ask others will directly resolve in the quality of your work and the quality of your life. Yeah, I, I mean, to me, a lot of credibility. I want actionable solutions, real problems.

You know, there’s so many people that go up on [00:34:00] stage and speak about these completely esoteric concepts that apply to like. Maybe like what, two people, three people? You know, like if you are up on space or deep underground or deep in the Mariana Trench. Yeah. This doesn’t apply to any of us. We don’t care about these problems.

These are not the problems that we’re dealing with. Tell us something that we can actually relate to that actually applies to us that we can use in our daily lives. I think so many privacy professionals get caught up in this like esoteric bubble where it’s like the more complicated and nuanced.

And distinct the issue, the smarter I sound when talking about it. But in reality, you’re not giving anybody anything of value. No. Because nobody understands what you’re talking about, right? You’ve lost everyone. Everyone might pretend to like, mm, and ah, and clap politely, but no one knows. Nobody cares. And you can judge that because afterwards nobody’s gonna come and shake your hand.

Like if I’ve been in this field for 10 years and I have no idea what you’re talking [00:35:00] about, we’ve got a problem here. You know what I mean? Exactly that. Exactly That. And this, this is a challenge with the mindset, right? Is you think that the more bigger words you use, the more legalese you can regurgitate, the more impressive people are.

Mm-hmm. Nobody’s gonna be impressed by that. Very true. Um, and even if other privacy professionals in your geek circle might be, they’re not the ones that are gonna promote you. It’s the business. So you need to go and be able to impress the business. And that’s not gonna impress the business. That’s gonna make sure you stay away from any party.

They invite you to what’s gonna impress the business. When you can take this complicated stuff and explain it in a way that’s so simple that they get it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, so thinking of the job market today, um, should privacy pros be changing companies if they feel like there’s better opportunities elsewhere, or should they be focused on growing internally?

That’s a great question and. I meet two kinds of professionals. I meet professionals that come and say, [00:36:00] the market’s really bad right now. Um, everyone’s getting laid off and everyone’s getting fired. Um, should I stay put? Should I think of pivoting? Or what should I do? And then I meet other people that say, Hey, every time I go on LinkedIn, I can see someone’s getting hired in privacy.

So there’s tons of privacy roles. Everyone’s getting redundant. Left, right center about privacy is hiring. And so it depends on which kind of mindset you operate from. So if you’re gonna operate from the scarcity mindset, like there’s a finite amount of jobs, and if the climate is really bad right now, then it makes sense to stay where you are because then you’re gonna go against, um, your own feelings and that’s not gonna be good.

But then if you have an abundance mindset where you know that, you know, there’s plenty of opportunity for everyone, and the only thing that determines whether you get those opportunities or not is how good of a job you’re doing in demonstrating the value you bring to the table. Then job security is never something that’s on your mind because you always have recruiters in your inbox.

You always see the business, uh, value and appreciating what you do because they see how much you’re respected by your peers, how much you’re respected by the industry, and what a great job that you’ve done for them compared to anyone else who’s [00:37:00] tried to do that job before. So if you are confident in the value that you bring to the table and you bring a value, then job security is always going to be there, whether you stay in this role.

Or whether you need to move. Now, if you are going to move companies, then you need to think about what it is that you are looking for from that next role. Now, let’s just address the elephant in the room. Money is important, but money isn’t everything. And it’ll get to a point where you realize that the money is no longer motivating you.

It’s the other things like the ability to solve big problems, the ability to make an impact at a large scale, the ability to be part of something and grow things, and the ability to actually protect people’s rights. So. Look at what it is that you’d be looking for from your next role, and then if you have like a list of three things that it must take, some kind of qualification criteria, then it makes sense to move.

But I don’t just move for the sake of moving because when you move, it’s going to be difficult for the company [00:38:00] to replace you. Because of the knowledge that you’re taking away with you, right? Even if you do the best handover in the world, they’re just stuff that, you know, as a human being there in that environment that you’ve absorbed through osmosis, that they, you just won’t be able to relate anywhere else.

And that will leave two positions. Someone else comes in and tries really hard to do a good job. Or all of the data subjects that are relying on someone to be that check and balance for them is no longer gonna be there. So it makes that a little bit vulnerable right now. That is not a reason not to move companies.

But what I’m saying is if you are thinking of moving, then you want to make sure that you move purposefully and that you have a criteria because you don’t just wanna take any offer because the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. You need to make sure that if you are making a move, then it’s something that works strategically for you and it’s in line with your longer term career plan, your aspirations, and all of your goals.

The other thing I also ask people to do is to have a list of red flags, like three things that are red flags, and if any of these come up. It’s a no straightaway. Like you, [00:39:00] you, you decide to end the process there straightaway. Now, one of the challenges I see people doing, especially when they’re trying to pivot to privacy, is they try to change their function as well as their industry at the same time.

And that is a huge challenge. So what I would say is if you’re looking to change your function, then keep the industry the same. And if you want to change industry. Then change. Change one or the other. Don’t change function and industry at the same time. It’s much easier to change one than the other or the other, and then the other one.

That’s the way it would make most sense to progress. That’s a really good tip. I never even thought of that. That’s really smart. So obviously from the results that you’ve gotten for your mentees and, and the huge improvements in their lives and their careers, you know, I think that having a mentor is really helpful and really, really useful.

How can privacy pros find a mentor in this field? That’s an excellent question. And [00:40:00] like I, I would not have achieved any of the things I’ve achieved if I didn’t have some great mentors in my life and me mentors. When you don’t have a mentor, literally what you’re saying is, Hey, I’m the best.

I’m so smart, but I know everything. I can figure everything else out and I can teach myself everything. Like literally that’s what I was saying to myself when I didn’t have a mentor. It’s only when I got a mentor I realized, I don’t know. Sugar, right? I don’t know. Sugar. There’s so much, I don’t know.

Then there is, I know and I don’t, I like, wow. They introduced me to a whole new world and I realized I was like a small ant in this amazing big world and the only way to, um, grow was to have people that know things that I don’t have, people that I’ve experienced, things that I don’t, because number one, a mentor can guide you and they can save you time.

Saving time is saving you money and you literally get on the fast track. It means you don’t have to learn from trial and error, and they can point you in the right direction very, very quickly. So how do we get a mentor? You can have a mentor in your company right now. [00:41:00] They don’t necessarily have to be a privacy professional as long as they understand what it takes in a professional vocation to thrive, right?

So you can have mentors who are not in privacy, and in fact, most of my mentors were not in privacy. I don’t think I have a single mentor today. That isn’t actually in privacy. And I’ve done pretty well. But you can see there’s different mentors that you’ll have for different things. And then they all teach you different things.

So the first mentor I had that helped me with my career was a HR professional, right? And he was focusing on a very specific niche and. What attracted me to him was he was making tons of money. Like he, I, I saw him speak once and he said he, the he made more in a day than I was making a week at that particular time.

Wow. And I was like, wow, I, I, I need to know what Kool-Aid you are drinking. I need more of that. Yeah. And so I approached him and I said, Hey, um, this is my situation. I was really inspired by what you said and I’d love for you to mentor me. And he said, no, I don’t mentor people. Uh, and so that was very disappointing.

But you know, I’m very resilient and I said, oh, I [00:42:00] know you don’t usually mentor people, but what would have to happen for you to take on, uh, uh, to agree to be my mentor and get the fulfillment from seeing me go from here to where you are. Uh, and then you can go and tell all your friends about what a great grade you are.

Lemme think about it. So we had to think about it, came back and you became a mentor. There are other mentors where you just go and you write out a check. Right. You write a check, you join a program, you join a coaching call, you, they become your mentor. I’ve got loads of mentors like that, and in fact, I have that relationship with a lot of people at the Privacy Pros Academy as well.

And then there are other mentors who you can just, um, ask for shadowing or for some advice or for some guidance, or to check over your work. Or you can say. I will do some tasks for you under your supervision. I just need you to mentor me so I can pick up and develop these skills so you can find mentors in so many different areas.

You can find them at work, you can find them in your community circles, you can find them in professional circles. You can go and pay for them. It’s all up to you and the kind of mentor you’re looking for. What [00:43:00] are the skills that you wanna develop right now? And you remember, you’ll need different mentors for different areas of your life and different parts of your journey.

Think about what is strategically gonna make the most sense for you to invest in right now. And then go and find the right person that’s gonna help you that with that. And then find the next mentor and the next mentor. And what you realize is the more mentors you get, the more you value having these amazing people around you, and the faster and the more potently it helps you to thrive in your career or whatever you choose to do.

Absolutely. Yeah. It’s like crowdsourcing knowledge basically that that applies to your situation. Exactly that. Where can people learn more about the Privacy Pros Academy? Where can they find you? The best place to find me is on LinkedIn. I think I have about 35,000, um, an audience of 35,000 followers on LinkedIn.

I also have the Privacy Pros podcast. Those will be the two best places to find, reach, and [00:44:00] connect. So Privacy Pros podcast or Jamal Ahmed on LinkedIn. Awesome. Jamal, thanks so much for, for coming on today and sharing your expertise with us. This was extremely helpful. Thank you so much for having me.

Absolute pleasure. Awesome. And for our listeners, um, make sure to subscribe to Privacy Laws so that you don’t miss our next episode.